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Comments posted by baba yaga
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Indian Sex Predators in America?
Moorthy ... I agree with Ash05 ... And I don't want to make it seem as if we are ganging up against you, but I want to make one final point ... You had mentioned -
"My question, which I had posed before, is this: why does DATELINE NBC want to create conditions for many people (possible newbies) to take further steps toward becoming pedophiles when such opportunities may not widely exist?"
Two scenarios -
Scenario 1 ... NBC conducted massive sting operations catching over 50 people in one day in Bay Area ... A handful of Indians among those caught ... it publicizes this in it's program Dateline and the Indian community is shocked ... This publicity will now act as a strong deterrent for any of the "respectable and innocent" Indians who might even be contemplating this act in the future ... The community is aware now and set on the straight path ... In the next 10 massive sting operations, not a single Indian is caught ...
Scenario 2 ... NBC does not nothing ... These "law-abiding" Indians remain unaware of the laws and seriousness of the issue ... Police Depts all over the US keep conducting small entrapment exercises and stings and catching offendors one by one ... No-one in the Indian community comes to know about these minor arrests, and potentially dozens of Indian "law-abiding " citizens get convicted ... This time by the police, and not just by a Broadcaster ...
Which scenario is more desirable? ... Wouldn't you agree that the NBC Dateline is at least educating the Indian Community about the seriousness of the issue, and preventing further undesirable incidents from occuring? ... If not, what is your approach to tackling the dangers of online paedophilia? ...
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Indian Sex Predators in America?
Moorthy ... The argument you're making is one of entrapment, and whether it's morally justified for NBC or any other vigilantes to do this ... It's a fair argument to make ... However it is not applicable in this particular case ...
Here is an extract from the FAQ section of Perverted Justice.com, which organised these chats which led to the raids ...
To the people who like to make that claim, let's deal with an analogy real quick. Pretend that there is a twelve year old sitting in a park dancing around and asking older males for sex. Yes, that extreme of a situation. What should the male say? Yes, or no? Is the prospect of an underage kid so irresistible that we now consider a willing underage kid to be so persuasive that a male can't do anything but say yes? Get real.
So are the files we post "entrapment"? No. Not on any level. First, entrapment is a term created and judiciated against law enforcement officials. We are not law enforcement officials. Secondly, these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call. Entrapment is a situation where you go out of your way to entice a citizen as law enforcement to commit a crime they otherwise would not commit. For example, if a department sent around female police pretending to be prostitutes to knock on the doors of private citizens offering sex, that's entrapment. We don't do the figurative "knocking on doors." Rather we sit, wait, and allow them to knock upon our online "door." And when they do, they're in for a surprise. As the law states regarding entrapment, the defense fails when it can be shown that the person being charged had a predisposition to the crime in question. Nobody can argue who knows anything about the law in any honest fashion that those we get arrested are not predisposed to attempting the crime they do.
Dozens and dozens and dozens of convictions... zero successful entrapment defenses."
So are the files we post "entrapment"? No. Not on any level. First, entrapment is a term created and judiciated against law enforcement officials. We are not law enforcement officials. Secondly, these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call. Entrapment is a situation where you go out of your way to entice a citizen as law enforcement to commit a crime they otherwise would not commit. For example, if a department sent around female police pretending to be prostitutes to knock on the doors of private citizens offering sex, that's entrapment. We don't do the figurative "knocking on doors." Rather we sit, wait, and allow them to knock upon our online "door." And when they do, they're in for a surprise. As the law states regarding entrapment, the defense fails when it can be shown that the person being charged had a predisposition to the crime in question. Nobody can argue who knows anything about the law in any honest fashion that those we get arrested are not predisposed to attempting the crime they do.
Dozens and dozens and dozens of convictions... zero successful entrapment defenses."
Moorthy ... If this was indeed entrapment, as you claim, then why has there been over 138 convictions by this method in the US coourt of law and NOT A SINGLE succesfull defense against entrapment? ... Like it mentions in the paragraph above, entrapment does not apply when the person being charged has a proven predisposition to the crime in question ...
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"What Do You Do?"
As someone who has known you for the last 26 years, I can definitely comment on "what you do" ...
Mom, Wife, Daughter, Chef, Art teacher, Music teacher, Tuition Master, Interior Decorator, Dietician, Fashion Designer, Hair Styilist, Beautician, Psychiatrist, Mentor ...
And how can I foget WRITER! ... You've been a great inspiration Mom!
Misha
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Your IQ Levels
My favourite is the second one ... Took some time to deduce ... If I'm not mistaken the time is 1:45, right? ...
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Only Numbers
It is strange how matters of social welfare enter our conscience only when a disaster occurs ... Don't like to sound gloomy, but people are dying everyday ... More than 150,000 people died due to the Tsunami ... But did you know that over 165,000 people die every month because of Malaria? ... The figure is 240,000 per month for AIDS ... Not that nothing is being done about it - There are millions of dollars being donated regularly for these causes too ... But the figures remain there - in the hundreds of millions ...
The Africa Malaria Report estimates that $ 1 Billion a year is required to significantly reduce the problem of Malaria ... Currently approximately $200 MM is being spent annualy to combat malaria in Africa (a rise from past years, but still not enough) ... The US spends $1.5 Billion dollars a week in Iraq ... What this means is that the most powerful nation in the world spends more to kill people than to save them ... If it gives to Africa what it spends in Iraq for 2 weeks, within 3 years the problem of Malaria will be significantly reduced ...
The Africa Malaria Report estimates that $ 1 Billion a year is required to significantly reduce the problem of Malaria ... Currently approximately $200 MM is being spent annualy to combat malaria in Africa (a rise from past years, but still not enough) ... The US spends $1.5 Billion dollars a week in Iraq ... What this means is that the most powerful nation in the world spends more to kill people than to save them ... If it gives to Africa what it spends in Iraq for 2 weeks, within 3 years the problem of Malaria will be significantly reduced ...
On
Indian Sex Predators in America?
Simple ... Prosecute everyone found and proven guilty of paedophilia to the fullest extent of the law ... Regardless of nationality, religion, social standing or office ...
On
Indian Sex Predators in America?
Munir, that was chilling article about the Kenyan sex trade ... Reality can get quite depressing at times ...
I understand the point you're trying to make ... These guys may not have thought it was a big deal and they could easily get away with it ... Then are you saying these guys should be excused? ... So that they can repeat the same offense again knowing that the law is lenient towards such crimes? ...
Tell me something ... if a guy goes to another country and kills someone (knowing it's illegal), should he be excused from persecution just because his risk perception is warped? ... Just because he did not know that the laws here would be so strictly enacted? ... This still does not justify what these guys did ...
And it's fascinating how you can twist any story into the religious angle! ... You started it off with a nice little "Digression" disclaimer as well! ... I shall refrain from taking that bait ...
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Tales from a juvenile boarder!
Bunty ... You're right ... Anything I post in Sulekha will have to be properly censored, lest I meet censure by the Queen! ... Maybe I should hire from Flimflam Editorial Services Ltd. ...
Sup ... Yeah, I have quite a few avatars ... But only one online version - Baba Yaga ... this has been my online alias for almost 10 years now ... Relatively new to Sulekha, but liking it already ...
On
Perverted-Justice.com recruits volunteer contributors who pose as underage children in chatrooms. Posing from a variety of ages (standard ages are 10-15), these contributors simply go into chatrooms with fake online screennames and wait for predators to instigate conversation with them. Are you curious as to what our contributors see when they go into chat with these underage names? Finding out for yourself is easy. Simply go to Yahoo.com, create a new profile, put underage information in your profile (works best if you are posing as a girl), then log into any regional chatroom (perhaps even the one closest to your own community). Without even saying anything in the chatroom, you will often be deluged by PM's that will occassionally be open solicitations for sex or "grooming" (an adult preparing, through conversation, an underage child for such solicitations). Now simply imagine if, instead of you, it actually was a young child logging online only to receive this "perverted" greeting from fellow chatters. Hence, the problem.
Do you contact the men or do they contact you?
We have an official "rules of engagement" that we train contributors in once they are selected. One of those rules is that unless asked to in the chat, always let the male PM you. That way they can't cry that the "kid" messaged them in IM first, they have to take the first step. Often, just entering a chat room is enough to get 3-10 instant messages at once without having to say anything in the main chat room area.
We are philosophically against anyone or any organization that contacts people first as underage personas. There is no reason to do that when online predators are so numerous and motivated to contact what they think is a 10-15 year old male or female first. We want predatory threats and we are happy to wait as long as it takes to find them. Sadly, that doesn't take very long.
How much help do you think this site is in deterring REAL predators?
Indian Sex Predators in America?
You're right absolutely right Murthy ... Underage children would NOT arrange to meet unknown and older men ... And neither did the folks at NBC Dateline ... The men themselves made advances ...
See what the website Perverted-Justice (a Non-Profit organisation that works closely with NBC Dateline and law enforcement agencies) has to say in their FAQ section ...
"What Does PeeJ Do?
Perverted-Justice.com recruits volunteer contributors who pose as underage children in chatrooms. Posing from a variety of ages (standard ages are 10-15), these contributors simply go into chatrooms with fake online screennames and wait for predators to instigate conversation with them. Are you curious as to what our contributors see when they go into chat with these underage names? Finding out for yourself is easy. Simply go to Yahoo.com, create a new profile, put underage information in your profile (works best if you are posing as a girl), then log into any regional chatroom (perhaps even the one closest to your own community). Without even saying anything in the chatroom, you will often be deluged by PM's that will occassionally be open solicitations for sex or "grooming" (an adult preparing, through conversation, an underage child for such solicitations). Now simply imagine if, instead of you, it actually was a young child logging online only to receive this "perverted" greeting from fellow chatters. Hence, the problem.
Do you contact the men or do they contact you?
We have an official "rules of engagement" that we train contributors in once they are selected. One of those rules is that unless asked to in the chat, always let the male PM you. That way they can't cry that the "kid" messaged them in IM first, they have to take the first step. Often, just entering a chat room is enough to get 3-10 instant messages at once without having to say anything in the main chat room area.
We are philosophically against anyone or any organization that contacts people first as underage personas. There is no reason to do that when online predators are so numerous and motivated to contact what they think is a 10-15 year old male or female first. We want predatory threats and we are happy to wait as long as it takes to find them. Sadly, that doesn't take very long.
How much help do you think this site is in deterring REAL predators?
This is one of the most oft-repeated myths we've heard. "Blah blah blah PeeJ doesn't catch real predators!" has been the refrain of those that dislike what we do for various reasons. Rather than convince you that we do, we'll just link you.
There's the example of Ron Rivera of New York, who had already successfully solicited and raped a minor male in North Dakota prior to our finding him. There's the example of Benjamin Brown of Ohio who had raped an actual underage female in the eighties. When he arrived to meet our decoy, he had rope, gags, handcuffs and a knife. Not enough to prove it? Well, there's the case of William J. Corbett of Tucson, Arizona. He's still awaiting trial but we do know that various females have come forward alleging molestation at the hands of this former girl's softball coach. Last, but not least at all... during our January 2006 sting in Riverside California, ten percent of the 51 individuals that arrived to have sex with our decoy and were arrested...? Registered sex offenders, with offenses reaching back into the eighties and through the new millenium. Oh, also in that crop were two convicted murderers.
There's the example of Ron Rivera of New York, who had already successfully solicited and raped a minor male in North Dakota prior to our finding him. There's the example of Benjamin Brown of Ohio who had raped an actual underage female in the eighties. When he arrived to meet our decoy, he had rope, gags, handcuffs and a knife. Not enough to prove it? Well, there's the case of William J. Corbett of Tucson, Arizona. He's still awaiting trial but we do know that various females have come forward alleging molestation at the hands of this former girl's softball coach. Last, but not least at all... during our January 2006 sting in Riverside California, ten percent of the 51 individuals that arrived to have sex with our decoy and were arrested...? Registered sex offenders, with offenses reaching back into the eighties and through the new millenium. Oh, also in that crop were two convicted murderers.
That's just a smattering of the individuals who have arrived that already had reached an actual minor child. If those aren't real predators then there are no... such... well, come to think of it, there are no "real predators." There are only those who are not predators and those who are. Our position is that you don't have to have prior offenses to be considered a "real" predator, just that you actively plan and plot an offense out... something everyone posted on our website has in common."
Well Murthy! ... If this still has not conviced you about the impending dangers of paedophiles out there, then I don't know what other argument to use ... I officially give up! ...
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